ISSN: 2977-6368
IN CONVERSATION...
In every issue of The New Cartoonist we poke and probe political journalists and those with influence within the cartoon industry and more...
CLIVE GODDARD
The Chairman of the Professional Cartoonists Organisation...
Where do you find a collection of professional cartoonists when all the pubs have shut? Well The Professional Cartoonists Organisation of course! A very handy website. The PCO promotes the work of its members and champions the cartooning arts across the board and around the world. They organise and support exhibitions and festivals and also stand up for, and have campaigned on behalf of oppressed artists. Members can be found gracing the pages of national newspapers and many popular news-stand magazines including The Guardian, The Daily Mirror, The Metro, The Financial Times, The Independent, The New Zealand Herald, Private Eye, The Oldie, The Spectator, The New Yorker and many, many more. TNC grabbed a moment with Chairman and all round good egg Clive Goddard to find out more about the PCO and its work. You’re a brilliant cartoonist but how did you add the extra string to your bow and become the Chair of The PCO? Thanks, Pete. The cheque’s in the post. Initially I was asked onto the committee as secretary back in the days when Andy Davey was chair-leg and we would meet at the Custard Factory in Birmingham. Presumably video conferencing hadn’t been invented at that point. I didn’t stick at it for long though as it involved paying attention at meetings and taking minutes (I mean, who knew?) It was 2018 when they asked me back to be chair after good old Bill Stott stepped down. He was an impossible act to follow so I haven’t. It was also a two for one deal as they asked my wife Amy to come onboard as treasurer at the same time and we said OK because we liked the idea of being one of those power-couples who get referred to by a single compound name like Bennifer. Clammy was the nearest we got. Amy was subsequently horrified to discover that being treasurer involved doing accounts and maths and stuff. Obviously the great thing about being a member is the shiny badge but what are the other benefits for a cartoonist joining the PCO? Shiny badges aside there’s also the coveted swag bag containing a PCO T shirt, tote bag, colouring book and a sock, worn and signed by Glenn Marshall. The PCO website gives you a portfolio page among the great and good of British cartooning. I’ve no idea how often members get work or commissions through the site but I know it happens. Finding ways to lure more customers and clients to the site without spending a fortune is my current brain-worm. There’s also our members’ forum where you can talk shop with like-minded cartoonists’, argue the toss with non-like-minded cartoonists, and meet eligible singles in your area. Membership also means invitations to take part in cartoon exhibitions and festivals (though we’re currently down to just the Herne Bay festival having lost Shrewsbury) and the opportunity to take part in the annual cartoon awards (The Splats). Plus, our You Tube Channel (PCO TV), our Facebook page, Insta page and BlueSky page and there’s an informative newsletter with very few formatting errors. All this and associate membership of the AOI for just seventy quid a year (or eighty if you’re one of those tech-phobes can’t be bothered to set up a standing order. Does the PCO take only professional cartoonists or has the criteria changed with the influx of social media with millions of publishers? The criteria for membership has changed over the last twenty years to be less strict on what counts as professional. If we only accepted cartoonists who earned their living from their art we’d be a very small organisation. For example, I still can’t afford to give up my paper round. The wording changed to ‘earning a significant part of your income through cartooning’ and applications require a majority vote from the committee to be allowed into the hallowed halls of the PCO where the good biscuits are. Most applicants still come from the world of print media though. Have you seen a spike in AI generated cartoons arriving in the PCO inbox? How do you protect against that? Do you think AI is a real threat? I think it is a genuine threat to our livelihoods. It’s one thing for Facebook users to post Disneyfied Gen AI caricatures of their cat but these people were never going to hire a real artist anyway, The problem is that some tight fisted companies, who had previously commissioned paid work are doing it too. Stories of being replaced by crappy machine content are trickling in. Personally, I’d like to see a levy placed on Gen AI companies with compensatory money being distributed to artists through DACs or something similar. The PCO has just had it’s 2nd SPLATS Awards, an amazing night . What was behind the decision to create a new awards format? We spent a few years being a very junior partner in the Ellwood Atfield / Tim Benson Political Cartoon Awards and the general feeling was that we could do something better ourselves with more cartoonists involved, more award categories and fewer thrusting young business types in suits, who we didn’t know, hanging around drinking all the free Heineken. The calibre of politicians who were invited as guests of honour deteriorated too. The shambolic 2023 awards were the last ones we took part in. There was a cringe-inducing speech by freshly sacked Suella Braverman while no one thought to tell Lord Kulveer Ranger that the award he was presenting was dedicated to the memory of the late Tony Husband - and that Tony wasn’t there to accept it. I spoke with numerous cartoonists that evening who felt, annoyed, ignored and belittled by the event and took the idea of doing our own thing to the committee. It wasn’t a unanimous decision but I’m very glad we did. It’s a big year for the PCO - A 20th anniversary no less. What plans do you have to commemorate it all? None at present but we really should do something. All ideas welcome. What does the PCO have planned for the rest of 2026? Any more exhibitions or news you’d like to share? I hear Herne Bay will be back again? Yes another Herne Bay Festival will be happening in August. It’s great - everyone should go there. Carol (The Surreal McCoy) is working on an ‘exhibition in a box’ kit which will enable us to put on exhibitions in places other than London (I looked it up on Google Maps and apparently there are quite a few places in the UK which aren’t London.) We’re planning a long overdue Noel Ford Retrospective exhibition. In early March we’re going to the House of Commons (in London, I’m told) to support the WDC in a campaign against animal exploitation at tourist spots. We’ll be making a few tweaks to the submission rules for the next awards evening, speaking with DACS and to AOI about the AI problem and hopefully getting more eyeballs on our web portfolios. Plus, of course, something to celebrate our birthday. And what’s next for Clive Goddard? Quite busy lately drawing the cover art for Mystery Guides (they’re great fun), a few pics for business and industry and plugging away as ever with the remaining mags and papers. I’m also trying to get more speaking gigs talking about cartooning while showing a slightly amusing slideshow. If you know who might enjoy an informative but fun-tastic talk please let me know. Currently waiting to hear whether the WI will have me and drawing a lot of cartoons about jam and Jerusalem. Also looking forward to a few more cruise ship gigs giving cartooning workshops to the unsuspecting passengers in-between bouts of eating and drinking too much Finally TNC believes everyone was born to Draw. We know you are a dab hand, can you give us one of your favourites? Please find above.
BETH BRYAN
The Director of The Cartoon Museum in London
Where do you go to view a collection of over 6000 original cartoons from the 18th century to the present day? Well, The Cartoon Museum in central London of course! It’s a great hub for learning, with its library of over 8000 comics and books documenting the history of British comics, and has many fantastic exhibitions throughout the year. Now in its 20th anniversary year, the museum has recently been on the hunt for a new Director after the departure of Joe Sullivan in November 2025. TNC grabbed a moment between pencil sharpeners and ink blots with newly appointed Beth Bryan, to find out all about what 2026 and beyond holds for The Cartoon Museum. Congratulations on the new role. You’ve made quite a move; from the hugely historic Hogarth House in Hounslow to the likely broader-feeling Cartoon Museum in Fitzrovia. The transition must have been an interesting one? Hogarth’s House holds incredibly fond memories and formative experiences for me and is surely one of the standouts of my career After working in more strategic roles in larger cultural and support organisations in more recent years, I was looking forward to coming back to caring directly for a heritage collection. I feel this role is a mosaic of every aspect of my CV – programming, collections, strategy, financial planning, operations – being a Director of a small independent museum certainly is all encompassing. I look forward to utilising my wide range of skills and learning from the expertise within the team Where did it all start for you? Have you always had an interest in cartooning and history? Museums have always held a special place in my heart - Indiana Jones’s ‘this belongs in a museum’ is the motto of my own crusade What I love about cartoons and particularly the earlier aspects of the collection is the inherent relevance; they are a snapshot in time of current affairs and public discourse. They truly are an underutilised primary source in historical research. While the methods, names, and styles change and evolve over time, conversations about inequality, hypocrisy and challenging those in power are evergreen. How does it feel to be the keeper of the spiritual home of the UK’s Cartoonists? It is an immense privilege and I recognise my duty to to continue to inspire, engage and care for more than 300 years of cartooning heritage, which has a unique significance and influence within British history. I am grateful to have such a knowledgeable team and trustees with me in taking up this baton. I am already learning so much about different corners of the cartoon, caricature and comic world through the breadth of our collection. Like many small museums, our collections storage isn’t ideal. One of my priorities for 2026 is to secure more appropriate and accessible storage so please do ‘watch this space’ on this one. The Cartoon Museum has an amazing catalogue of political cartooning history within its walls, and puts on some very popular exhibitions. What plans do you have for 2026?  Any exciting ‘Nights at the Museum’ planned? Can you tell us what events and new displays we can look forward to? We are hard at work planning our 20th anniversary celebrations, which will kick off in March and run for a full year. More details will be published on our website soon, but as a teaser - we’re planning a gallery trail, special events and Friends of the Museum exclusives. Outside of these celebrations, we are also planning to curate more short-run In-Focus displays, animate our monthly Museum Lates and create seasonal What’s On guides to ensure our visitors have ample opportunities make good use of our 12-month unlimited re-entry passes. Do you have any other ideas for the museum that you’d like to share? We are currently drafting a new five-year forward strategy to secure the museum’s sustainable future. We are not immune to the challenges the culture sector and our audiences are facing and this has catalysed us to think differently. We have previously focused primarily on the creation of cartoons, which will remain a core pillar of the Museum, but do expect us to broaden this out to include programming on the consumption and engagement with the medium as well. We hope this will engage a wider audience, open up new partnerships and unlock more opportunities within the treasure trove of our collection. Political cartooning has such a rich heritage in the UK. Do you fear with the arrival of AI that it might become obsolete? How does The Cartoon Museum guard against artificially generated artwork? AI is, at least for the moment, still struggling with creative tasks and humour. With innovative satire and comedic wit holding significant value within the medium, this isn’t what keeps me up at night yet. That isn’t to be flippant about its impacts on cartoonists. Like any career or period in history, we are called upon to adapt and evolve. With cartoonists being some of the most creative and clever people I have met, I believe in their survival. What I do have concerns about is the ethics of AI learning and would be keen to see an updated version of the Hogarth Act to safeguard artistic intellectual property across the board.. The Cartoon Museum champions new up and coming Cartoonists with its Young Cartoonist of the Year award. Any more plans in showcasing new talent? The awards and recognition for young and emerging talent such the Young Cartoonist Awards in partnership with the British Cartoonist Association are exciting and engaging aspect of the Museum’s work and most certainly will remain so. I am particularly excited to revamp the In-Focus displays; one of the three rotating pillars of the programme will be to spotlight an emerging artist engaging a new or target audience. The cartoon and comic art world is vast, with many different corners and evolving spaces that we don’t want to overlook; this way, we can better serve new audiences and emerging artists alike. We are still in the planning stages establishing the selection criteria and funding model, but we hope to re-launch In-Focus in Summer 2026. And how can Cartoonists – of all ages - get involved in the Museum? Cartoonists remain a core audience for us and while we aren’t a publisher, we hope our rotating programme of special exhibitions, events and Friends of the Museum exclusives will satiate curiosity, peak interests and spark inspiration within the community. It is an exciting time for The Cartoon Museum but we are facing an unprecedented challenging financial landscape. Visiting our galleries and events, partnering with us, following us on Instagram, donating and becoming a Friend of the Museum are all great ways to get involved, be a part of the community and support the Museum, as the home of British cartoon heritage, to thrive into our next 20 years. The best way to keep up with the latest is to sign up for our e-newsletter at cartoonmuseum.org. Finally TNC believes everyone was born to draw. Can you draw us a cartoon? (Gag or political - we are not fussy!). And I thought this wasn’t a hit piece! Here is my remix of William Hogarth’s Painter and His Pug titled Director and Her Dog. Above.
JENNY KLEEMAN
Journalist, author, and broadcaster
The news cycle never stops, loves dragging us up hills and seems to always avoid getting pesky punctures. If it’s not plots to oust Keir Starmer, prisoners on the run, budget leaks and Trump being just, well...Trump - suing the BBC, it’s global news with Russian spy ships, the Epstein files, Ukraine in stalemate and Gaza still not free, As political cartoonists we need to consume it all, and to try to make some kind of sense of it. One way to do that is to listen to and watch reputable news organisations, which often means staying up late and watching the paper reviews for differing perspectives. My personal choice is Sky News, and so it was an absolute pleasure to catch up with Jenny Kleeman, a regular political pundit on their paper reviews. Jenny is a journalist, author and broadcaster. She presents programmes on BBC Radio 4 and has reported for Channel 4’s foreign affairs series Unreported World and BBC One’s Panorama. Where did it start for you and how did you get into journalism? I started off wanting to be a rock star. Until I was about 24, I was convinced that I was going to be a musician. I had a few bands and lots of equipment and I was looking for work that would fit around my music. So I tried freelance journalism and short contracts in the TV industry (my first TV gig was as a researcher on Graham Norton’s Channel 4 chat show). Fortunately for the world, my music career never took off. Fortunately for me, this was all before the days of YouTube, so none of my music is out there. I turned out to be much better at journalism. When you are tasked with doing paper reviews on Sky News, it’s our first look at the printed media for the next day. Knowing from personal experience how late those pages are made available, it must be pretty pressurised to get an opinion formed in such a short space of time. (10:30pm onwards). Also it’s a late finish at Midnight. How do you deal with it all?? I’ve been doing it for a long time now, but at first I was totally overwhelmed by the stress of it. The first time I did a paper review it was on the BBC News Channel, and I cried with nerves for the entire afternoon beforehand. But you get used to it! I have a way of preparing for it now – which is more about making myself feel confident than briefing myself about anything. I take a proper stock of the news at 6 or 7pm (when most papers go to press), have a think about what my opinions are about the main stories, and generally at least one of them will come up on a front page. But you also have to be willing to respond to breaking news. After you’ve been doing it for a while, you will know where you stand on most things, so forming opinions quickly gets easier. The most difficult part of it is that the Sky News studios are in Osterley, which is near Heathrow, so it takes ages to get there and back. I’m not in bed before 1am. And I am normally a morning person – my brain goes soft after 6pm.. You also present on Times Radio and have worked for BBC Radio 4. How does that medium compare versus the rush of being on national TV? I had a live breakfast show on Times Radio for two years during the pandemic – my last show for them was in 2022. Since then I have made narrative series for Radio 4, and presented programmes like Woman’s Hour. Live radio is as much of a rush as live TV – more so, sometimes, as it’s a far more intimate medium. You feel like you are really speaking directly to your audience, when there are no bells and whistles of visuals to distract them. I’m a words person, so radio probably suits me better than TV. But everything is becoming TV now, anyway – there are cameras all over every radio studio nowadays, and even narrative radio series which aren’t recorded live are expected to have a video element for social media. So you can’t get away with going to work in your pyjamas anymore. You recently wrote a very personal and fascinating article in The Guardian about the term ‘Workaholism’. Do you think there is more of a link to this for freelancers who might feel the need to please employers/clients rather than those with long term permanent contracts? I think there’s certainly a truth in that, particularly for people who are starting out as freelancers, or at the beginning of new opportunities. There’s a sense that you need to be always available and hyper-employable, never being difficult or complaining or turning down work, never having to say no on the grounds of ill health or caring responsibilities. You’re only as good as your last gig if you’re freelance, so many freelancers want to go the extra mile. After a while, that becomes unstainable – especially if you have kids or a medical condition. A lot of industries I have worked in – TV production, journalism and broadcasting – are entirely reliant on contractors and staff who will say yes to everything – any job, any hours, any topic. It’s a model that means women in particular are shut out at a certain point in their careers. I don’t think I am a workaholic. Having written the piece, I came to the conclusion that I have thrown myself into my work as a form of escape during the most difficult part of my life. It helps that I find my work genuinely fascinating and so rewarding, and that I can do it from home. But balance is everything When you look at the crazy news cycle, do you ever feel like I do that at some point you’re going to wake up and find the adults back in the room? I have felt this way since 2016. It all began to go to shit in January 2016 when I woke up to a BBC Breaking News alert saying David Bowie had died. Ever since then, it’s been one unexpected disaster after another. I’m nostalgic for a time when politicians really stood for something. I can’t even really remember when that time was. At the moment, it feels like we have to choose between being governed by populists or lawyers. Neither is very appealing. Do you think the recent election of a new Mayor in NYC will be a wake up call for Democrats? I think it should serve as a reminder that ordinary people feel utterly hopeless in a world where everything feels so unaffordable and difficult, and that any politician who can propose solutions that make sense for those people can win votes. The answer isn’t populism, it’s tangible policies that people can see will make a difference to their lives. The big question is whether Mamdani will be able to deliver on his promises. If not, people will feel even more hopeless. With Starmer seeming to go from one disaster to another and Badenoch so far down in the polls, do you think we need to be making plans for Nigel in number 10? I think we can’t rule it out. And then what? Farage doesn’t do policy. How would a Reform government govern? What will happen to faith in democracy if people feel like no party has the ability to govern the country? I think we are living in genuinely dangerous times where almost anything is possible. AI as well as falling budgets are a massive threat to the cartooning industry. Do you think the political cartoon can survive? Do you have any favourites you have come across in your career? I was doing the press preview on the night the Queen died and there was an image of her on the Elizabeth line that caught the public mood so well. Very British – not taking ourselves too seriously, but poignant and moving. What’s next for Jenny Kleeman? I’m working on a new six-part series for BBC Radio 4 which will launch in January. And there will be another series of my Radio 4 show, The Gift, which looks at the unexpected truths that can emerge when people take at-home DNA tests for fun. Finally, here at TNC we believe at that everyone was born to draw. Could you draw us a political cartoon? I could, but it absolutely won’t be worth publishing! (TNC disagrees. A brilliant effort, see above.)